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Wendy gaffe 'holed referendum plan'



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Published Date: 18 May 2008
WENDY Alexander's demand for an early referendum on Scottish independence two weeks ago holed a secret plan being drafted by UK Labour chiefs to trigger a vote on the matter as early as this winter, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.
Detailed proposals were being drawn up in Whitehall to put forward a Scottish referendum bill in the House of Commons which would have led to a quick vote on the future of the country.

Gordon Brown is understood to have been considering the plan, but it was ruled out after Alexander made a chaotic U-turn, forcing the Prime Minister to disassociate the party from such a scheme.

However, a senior Whitehall source said that ministers were "highly likely" to have gone ahead with a referendum later this year.

The secret plans offer a further explanation for the cold fury in the UK Labour party which greeted Alexander's unexpected call for a referendum on independence two weeks ago. By calling on Salmond to bring forward his own bill – and, at one point, threatening to even bring her own bill forward at Holyrood – she effectively declared that it was Labour policy that a referendum should be organised at Holyrood, and not Westminster.

Labour's plan until then had been to organise a referendum at Westminster where it could have controlled the timing and the wording of the question put to the people. Labour sources point out that as the Constitution is a reserved matter, it should be Westminster which organises the vote, and not Holyrood. They also point out that, with Labour having a majority at Westminster, a bill proposing a referendum could have been passed "within weeks", thereby ensuring that the matter could have been dealt with quickly.

But even supporters of the secret plan now concede that there is no chance they can act, after Brown was forced to deny that there were any plans for a referendum at either Westminster or Holyrood, when put under pressure over the matter last week by Tory leader David Cameron.

One insider said: "Had it not been for Wendy's intervention, I think it (an early referendum] would have happened. The trouble is that Wendy had now effectively conceded that the matter is for Holyrood to decide even though that's wrong. The Constitution is reserved to Westminster. But the plan is now dead in the water."

Alexander's aides are insisting that her support for the principle of a referendum will eventually win support.

On claims that Alexander's backing had holed plans for a Westminster-organised poll, a spokesman declined to comment.

Never the twain: the divide between Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour Party leader Wendy Alexander over the timing of a referendum on independence appeared to be widening at this lunchtime gathering at the Assembly in Edinburgh yesterday.
Never the twain: the divide between Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour Party leader Wendy Alexander over the timing of a referendum on independence appeared to be widening at this lunchtime gathering at the Assembly in Edinburgh yesterday.

The full article contains 432 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:04:52
On claims that Alexander's backing had holed plans for a Westminster-organised poll, a spokesman declined to comment.

So its true then.

Brown was planning to hijack a referendum.
2

,

18/05/2008 00:10:06
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3

,

18/05/2008 00:14:44
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4

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:15:03
Dont you think thats a bit naughty?
5

livilion,

livingston 18/05/2008 00:19:47
So Wendy's cv for Labour in Scotland's party leadership stated that she and her brother were long time buddies and confidantes of Gordon Brown and that she has a massive intellect.

Did she have her cv done by some shady character off the internet?

Still, so long as she's got the likes of big Jackie Baillie or Maggie Curran, or that guy with the Lobby Doser eyes to put her case then no worries eh?

Who in the SNP could ever have guessed that leading a minority administration at Holyrood could be made so easy?

Could it be that the unionist opposition up here just can't break a habit of doing what they're told and have no idea when it is appropriate or advisable to speak their mind(!)?
6

Matt there,

somewhere 18/05/2008 00:21:00
So, Gordon was cross because his crooked little plan was spoilt?

He really should resign...
7

livilion,

livingston 18/05/2008 00:22:59
Wendy and Gordon must stay.
8

MtnKat,

18/05/2008 00:36:40
Another feeble attempt at damage control? Somehow this just doesn't ring true. ............Then I saw the byline.....................
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie. Will you never learn?
I shake my head and sigh...............................
9

Paddi,

18/05/2008 00:41:10
this is for no more than politicing...what about "takingtoughdecesionsforthelongtermfuture"........lets hope these two chancers get lost
10

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:42:52
and now for something completely different.


http://tiny.cc/w4UST
11

,

18/05/2008 00:47:36
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12

Jwil,

18/05/2008 00:48:29
#8 My thoughts entirely. Another diversionary tactic.

Why would they not still go ahead with it if Brown is so keen to save the Union? If saving the Union is so important I am sure the Tories would forgive Brown for saying he didn't want a referendum (in a moment of madness). The tales that Labour have told over this issue are unbelievable to say the least. A few more gross distortions of the truth shouldn't bother them.

The impression you get is that this is a whole lot of tosh both from the Labour party and its supporter the Scotsman.
13

Guga II,

Rockall 18/05/2008 00:51:15
Obviously Maggie Broon was intending to hijack the referendum, and obviously The Mouth of the South knew about it. That is why she opened her gaping maw and said the Broon agreed with her.

In other words, Wendy was conniving with her political masters in London to try and screw the Scottish people (situation normal).

It becomes more and more obvious just what a Parcel of Rogues the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, and their North British Branch, really are.

Incidentally, why is that this so-called Political Editor, the card carrying Party member Eddie Barnes, continues to write such blatantly biased articles? Why, for example, when they found out about London's plan to stitch up the Scottish voters, did he not ask for, and publish any comments by the Scottish Government?
14

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 00:52:01
Labour are doomed:-)
15

mesmiths,

fife 18/05/2008 00:56:35
IT'S ALL OUT, TOTAL, WAR BETWEEN THE TWO CHEEKS OF THE NEW LABOUR BACKSIDE! That's gotta chaffe.
16

Jimbo2,

18/05/2008 00:57:42
I think this report's a load of bull****. For starters, Brown doesn't have the bottle. I doubt that they'd ever take the risk of killing off their golden goose.

Here's something that is believable. tinyurl.com/6dha2o
17

,

18/05/2008 00:59:34
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18

Vivas,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 01:03:58
Good photo to go with the article at least. Looks like Wendy's in the dock !
19

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 01:05:36
vivas well thats about the only time your ever likely to see that photo isnt it vivas.
20

Edward,

18/05/2008 01:19:00
Labour secret plotting...what next?
How about the swindle thats PFI good article in the Sunday Herald http://tinyurl.com/5qtbcl
21

Edward,

18/05/2008 01:20:48
The picture above reminds me of something from the 19th century...The master and his faithfull servant
22

Edward,

18/05/2008 01:23:08
After reading this and the story about the PFI Swindle, it beggers beleif that anyone could vote for Labour ever again
They have betrayed Scotland, they are so sickening!
23

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Haggis Land, Dunfermline 18/05/2008 02:01:46
Gordon Brown, The Labour Party, all unionists of "past its use by date" United Kingdom. The very strategy that the new traitor "Englishman" Gordon Brown was contemplating setting its own referendum with its own cleverly worded question to try and yet again deny the Scottish people an opportunity to answer an honest question to determine its own destiny shows how dependent the chancellery is on the windfall income attributed to North Sea Oil and its premium price per barrel.

The future is bright, the Scottish people will see through such treachary and come the next UK election the Labour Party will be dumped en-masse.

Its Time, Time for a mature and proud nation to show the world the way!
24

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Haggis Land, Dunfermline 18/05/2008 02:39:15
In fact, the more I think about it the more distateful the whole sorry saga becomes.

Gordon Brown really has lost the plot. The Labour Party is disintegrating before everybody's eye's and Gordon and his party can't see how he, her and the rest of the cronies are the best advertisment for Independence.

Since the SNP took up office in numerous previously run councils the magnitude of the parochialism
and cronisim uncovered has shown previous Labour administrations had become arrogant and corrupt they don't deserve another chance...not until they have proved they have rid themselves of such self serving idiots the Labour Party has become.

Its Time, Time for a mature and proud nation to show the world the way!
25

Jim M Glasgow,

18/05/2008 02:41:01
Quite frankly I think "a senior Whitehall source" is spinning another bluff to protect what reputation Gordon Brown has left.

There's no way the man who bottled an election would bring forward such a Bill at Westminster because it would have drawn attention to him bottling a referendum on Europe.

Dodgy dossiers, dodgy donations and bluffs. It's what they do. Wendy admitted that on the latter.
26

BIG EYE,

Paisley 18/05/2008 02:43:27
It's OK it wasn't a serious plan,Gordon Brown was considering it.With that ditherer we are talking 2012 at the earliest.
27

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 18/05/2008 02:54:25
What a parcel of buffoons? Did they honestly think that the SNP would just tamely go along with their plan? What would they have done if the SNP and the other Scottish supporters of independence had simply called for a boycott and urged Scots not to vote on a London controlled process? Would anyone other than a part of Labour even vote? What would be in it for the Tories or LibDems to agree to support this plan? They would benefit from calling it a pantomime and boycotting it as well.

Just another example of Labour incompetence and duplicity.
28

clochoderic,

renfrewshire 18/05/2008 03:05:52
The left in Scotland must ask how they have come to this position.
Tommy Sheridan is mired in legal issues, the rump SSP are invisible and the Greens are a joke.
Labour in Scotland are saddled with a useless, careerist harpie who was appointed unopposed due to Broon`s malign influence.
The SNP are not the answer - but they are not the problem
29

Jim M Glasgow,

18/05/2008 03:05:55
#27 Quite. Which is why this spin is just that - spin to cover Gordon's 'donkey' and cut Wendy adrift.

Might get more interesting. 'Hell hath no fury' and all that.
30

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 03:11:51
Jim M Glasgow.

You are correct and this whole article is seriously flawed and pretty disturbing.

FACTS

"Asked for clarity if the Prime Minister believed that there should not be any question about a referendum until after the Calman Review, the PMS replied that he could do nothing more than refer Lobby to the Prime Minister's words at PMQs, which set it out fairly clearly.

Asked where the review went from here, and if the Calman process would be reviewed halfway through, or would they wait until the end, the PMS replied that all of this was set out when the terms of reference for the Calman Review were published on the 25th March. The Commission was expected to produce an interim report by the end of the year, and the review would report both to the UK Government and the Scottish Parliament."

It makes no sense to bring a bill to parliament in the timeframe Barnes suggests. Either Barnes is a complete numpty being used to scapegoat Wendy or more likely Barnes is in collusion to distort opinion through propaganda.

Given the article states "The secret plans offer a further explanation..." it seems clear to me what Barnes wants readers to think.

The whole thing reads like an episode of blackadder but judging by the comments it seems to have been pretty effective in its goal.
31

clochoderic,

renfrewshire 18/05/2008 03:39:29
I anticipate the day i see ms Alexander serving customers at some constituency supermarket being paid her true worth - didn`t she negotiate all those out of town deals and kill off Paisley Town centre?
This useless, hand-picked harridan and her equally ineffectual comedy brother Douglas will eventually be found out for the chancers and phonies they surely are.
I may be able to get Wendy a paper-round.
32

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 05:06:48
Here's what really happened:

(1) Wendy told the TRUTH ahead of Westminster to "put the toe in the water" on Labour's behalf.
(2) Brown told her in London he'd back her up. ...HOWEVER: once it turned sour, Gordy-boy betrayed her to save his face.
(3)It's called Cloak & Dagger politics. Neither can be trusted!
(4)Both need to stay (as they make the SNP look incredibly astute!) Bendy was USED!
33

Castaway,

18/05/2008 05:42:39
A coincidence ? However, a senior Whitehall source said that ministers were "highly likely" to have gone ahead with a referendum later this year.
Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich'
A study by leading accountants shows 'black gold' would generate a £4 billion budget surplus................ to conclude that Scotland “is sitting on a gold mine”. May 18, 2008
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3954031.ece
34

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/05/2008 07:02:54
Oh for some quality politicians. But I guess we get the ones we deserve, alas.
35

subrosa,

18/05/2008 07:27:02
The Ministry of Dirty Tricks is alive and well.
36

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 07:53:56
Do we REALLY want this lot as our Govt - they don't represent me that's for sure.
37

The wilkman,

Isle 18/05/2008 08:12:25
Note this line from the article:-
"""... she effectively declared that it was Labour policy that a referendum should be organised at Holyrood, and not Westminster."""

The sad thing about this whole story is that Labour's MSPs are not backing her enough. The good thing about it all is that it in practise establishes that a Holyrood initiated referendum is valid - in practical political terms the line that Independence is a matter reserved for Westminster is dead.
38

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:15:28
So lets just be clear; When Gordon told the Westminister parliament that there were no plans for a referendum-he was lying?
39

big big fun,

18/05/2008 08:19:26
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the sports section ?
40

Jimmy the Pie,

18/05/2008 08:27:02
I see the Sunday Hootsmoan has halved its cover price in the Highlands and Islands editions. Even at this price I wouldn't consider buying it until there was some writing worth reading.

Yes Eddie, so that means you'll have to move along!!
41

Cludgie,

18/05/2008 08:31:35
"Labour sources point out that as the Constitution is a reserved matter, it should be Westminster which organises the vote, and not Holyrood."

So the union is an "equal partnership"?
So power devolved really is power retained?
So Labour are "confident" they could win a referendum, but not so confident that they want to "bring it on" themselves?
So Labour wanted to "control the timing" and "the wording" of a referendum in their favour, exactly what they are accusing the SNP of doing?

It's democracy Jim, but not as we know it.

The Labour party have still not realised they lost the election and are away to lose the Westminster election. They are lost and are losing - superb.

42

Alan B,

18/05/2008 08:45:05
Run a referendum in the winter and then claim the turnout is poor.


Labour really do sink so low. A referendum and democracy is about letting the people decide not trying to rig the outcome.

Why have the referendum before we know what the unionist position is in Calman and why have it at such short notice that there will be little debate?

Labour really do make u sick.
43

Alan B,

18/05/2008 08:47:25
"But even supporters of the secret plan now concede that there is no chance they can act, after Brown was forced to deny that there were any plans for a referendum at either Westminster or Holyrood, when put under pressure over the matter last week by Tory leader David Cameron."

so they admit Brown lied.

If that is the case he must resign, he simply has not creditbility left.
44

Iain's,

18/05/2008 08:53:32
Seems to me that perhaps Wendy was following the party line all along but when they discovered that they are hated even more than Mrs. Thatcher, they shelved the plan.

Oh dear! another bad policy..back to the drawing board.

Vote them out next time!
45

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 08:59:24
So secret that nobody at all knew about it until today !
Rubbish, just Labour numpties trying to think of a scenario to cover the shambles.
46

Teamdroid,

18/05/2008 09:04:58
This looks like Westminster Labour briefing against Wendy to me, to make themselves look good.

The thing is, the UK picture must be considered here. If Brown had introduced a referendum on the Scottish question, he would have been savaged by the London media about the U-turn on the European Constitution referendum. Remember, that one was actually promised in a manifesto - someone went to court to try to hold Gordon to it - and the anti-European, anti-Labour section of the London media were desperate to see it happen.

As 46 says above, load of tosh.
47

pehman,

sussex 18/05/2008 09:08:36
This may not be the end of the matter,

If maggie survives the summer, stand by for a mid winter referendum in Dec/Jan, with an out of date electoral register and bad weather keeping people in doors.
48

Calum10,

18/05/2008 09:10:12
This is just more journalistic speculation and Labour spin ---- that's lies to you and me.

There is no way that Gordon Brown would have sanctioned a Scottish referendum bill at Westminster when he had already did a u-turn on the European Treaty referendum.

What this piece of nonsense shows is that Labour cannot close this story down. It is no wonder they are disliked and discredited north and south of the border.
49

911 was an inside job.,

18/05/2008 09:19:29
Sod the Scottish referendum. I still want a vote on the EU Treaty. Give me my vote now, or I'll use the 2009 European Elections to have my say on the EU dictatorship!
50

Toast,

18/05/2008 09:25:29
The case for independence strengthens again,our future is controlled by the most corrupt,incompetent Westminster government in living memory,and people wonder why there is increased support for Independence,without Scotlands oil revenues UK PLC is bankrupt.
51

b.allan,

alba 18/05/2008 09:54:59
yes it's a good photo, i agree - looks like Wendy is in the dock, where she should be!She might have got off with the illegal donations scandal but she's not going to get away with betraying the Scottish people again. i don't know what to make of this article though...seems like more crap from labour and their paper. Mr North Britain is normally too scared to call elections/referendums etc.
52

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 10:10:59
"WENDY Alexander's demand for an early referendum on Scottish independence two weeks ago holed a secret plan being drafted by UK Labour chiefs to trigger a vote on the matter as early as this winter, Scotland on Sunday can reveal."


If you believe any of that sh*te you will believe anything.
53

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 10:15:47
'This is just more journalistic speculation and Labour spin ---- that's lies to you and me. '

Could be- but if it is true, it means that Gordon Brown lied to the House of Commons.

Which would suggest to me, that the labour party should take this advice; 'when you're in a hole-stop digging!'
54

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 10:35:52
55

This is nothing more than damage containment. They are now trying to spin this Scottish Labour leadership gaff into a mistimed policy announcement.
Labour have had 8 years in control of a Scottish parliament riding higher in the polls than the SNP and could have brought a favourable referendum result in at any time during that period.
But since the SNP have taken power they can no longer feel comfortable about the possible result of a referendum.
Gordon Brown didnt even have the confidence to call a general election when he was more or less neck and neck with Cameron. Do you honestly think he would call a referendum in todays climate??
I believe Wendy got her London brief wrong and simply misunderstood it.
55

Al Ford,

Insch 18/05/2008 10:47:20
This story has the ring of truth. If you review the events surrounding the Alexander referendum initiative on the assumption that the UK government plan did indeed exist, they make more sense.

Ms Alexander has demonstrated, among other things, that a unionist political party cannot afford to be two-headed even though one of the heads is in London and the other in Edinburgh. Furthermore, she evidently forgot that she is not the only Labour leader who reads the Machiavelli bedtime book of trickery and swickery. Rule 1 for political tricksters: make sure you've got your act together before you go ahead with your cunning plan . . . or you'll be hoist with your own petard, which is embarrassing and counterproductive.

No wonder Ms Alexander is sitting all alone completely separate from the UK PM in the photo above. How much longer before the axe falls? A decent interval would be prudent.
56

Tolle1,

18/05/2008 11:20:53
`Labour's plan until then had been to organise a referendum at Westminster where it could have controlled the timing and the wording of the question put to the people.'

`But even supporters of the secret plan now concede that there is no chance they can act, after Brown was forced to deny that there were any plans for a referendum at either Westminster or Holyrood, when put under pressure over the matter last week by Tory leader David Cameron.'

If the information contained in the above quotes from the article are correct, it appears the People of Scotland, irrespective of whether they want independence or not, were going to have their right to have their say on the possible independence of Scotland stolen from them by a political slight of hand at Westminster.

The article may also indicate that Gordon Brown, Prime Minister of the UK, may not have been telling the truth, which unfortunately if true; he will not be held accountable for, as this appears to be an acceptable part of the game now.

How are we supposed to expect anybody else to tell the truth when those in power may not be, and it appears to be totally acceptable.

However, it may not have been intentional?
57

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 11:37:07
Another little gem from karenxxx:

http://tiny.cc/w4UST

The Times tells us that an Independent Scotland would have a minimum surplus of £4.4 billion thanks to rising Oil prices.

Looking ahead to the Independence campaign, we should bookmark these articles and even print them off so we can reproduce them during workplace or recreation place discussions on Independence.

These stats from the Times are a thousand times more valuable than anything we say or even Alex says because they are from an 'Independent' source.

Savour and enjoy for they are the keys to the 'Kingdom of Independence'.

BTW, do you think that karenxxx might be leaning towards the SNP?
58

bluehead,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 11:39:17
labour should step down,they are a spent force,that is if they were ever a force to start to with,
to have had Blair was bad enough,but to follow this with Brown is even more sickening
it is time for this goverment to crawl back under the boulder the came from
59

bluehead,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 11:40:59
labour should step down,they are a spent force,that is if they were ever a force to start to with,
to have had Blair was bad enough,but to follow this with Brown is even more sickening
it is time for this goverment to crawl back under the boulder they came from
60

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 18/05/2008 11:56:27
The Labour party has degenerated into farce. A party that only a few years was capable of massive majorities in General Elections has become so inept that their "strategies" look like they were copied from an episode of "Yes, Minister."

I doubt that David Cameron is really that popular or adept to justify his current poll numbers. It is just that it is difficult for the average person to contemplate voting for Brown and his gaggle of buffoons without breaking into fits of laughter.

61

McMillar,

Fife 18/05/2008 12:16:09
Too much ‘planning’ and not enough action. Only useful plans they can be making are for succession.
62

Jimmy the Pie,

18/05/2008 12:21:49
#61 Bluehead

Got to agree with you there. Did you see the screaming harridan that is Maggie Curren, the other night on Newsnicht? God what an awful women. If she'd been around earlier last century women would never have got the vote!
In fact Manchester polis would have had no trouble the other night if they'd had Maggie as a threat to the hooligans. I'd rather tackle a polis dog than her!!
Makes you wonder the mentality of the poor fools who voted for her.
63

The west awake,

Argyll 18/05/2008 12:24:20
Surely the SNP should now introduce a vote in Holyrood on the basis that the Parliament supports the "principle" of a referendum.
This would put the cat among the Unionist pidgeons. Labour could do no other than vote for and the Tories and LDs would be in a real quandry.
If the vote is carried the stupid Calman Commission would be even more exposed as a useless exercise.
It would also exacerbate the bitterness between Labour and the other Unionists.
Lovely!
64

Rasco,

Inverness 18/05/2008 12:55:35
I see article in Herald our Bendy Wendy has lost another aide?????????
65

Alex1,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 12:56:42
An interesting article from todays Sunday Times on an Oil Rich Independent Scotland
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3954031.ece
66

Rodster,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 13:52:48
This is as believable as WMD in Iraq , the Butler Report , David Kelly committed suicide, and all the other guff spouted by these lying torags in ZanuLab .
Barnes is just a card carrying Labour hack doing their bidding .
How as a nation could Scotland get so many sons and daughters over the centuries willing to take the London shilling to the detriment of their own land of birth?
67

fearghus,

Not there 18/05/2008 14:27:32
Crazy stiff, why not just sway that Scotland of auld its not worth anything but it's resources i.e.oil = why bother with a referendum the Westminerites will never let thee go - such a parcel of fools and rogues in a nation !
68

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 14:28:07
65

Exactly there was no loop even a control freak such as GB couldnt keep Scottish MSP outside of a loop with regards to a Scottish referendum decision. The story is a crock.
69

Hickory,

US 18/05/2008 15:48:14
Well now, wee Wendy jumped tha gate did she? I think she is searchin' for a cause to nail 'er name to. In this case, she killed the cause for 'er own advantage. They have one over 'ere that did it too.... in a big way. Say hello to Hillary. It seems ta me that there are still a lot of sassy lasses out there who want to be queen. But, the head has swollen to much ta put a crown on it.
70

Jwil,

18/05/2008 16:44:54
Article from the S. Times. Blair's parliamentary expenses details have been shredded "...by mistake..." apparently???
71

Suomi,

SaloFinland 18/05/2008 17:10:54
If the allegation in this article is true then it shows that Labour want to manipulate the outcome of a referendum by choosing the time and the wording of the questions,and giving very liitle advance warning.If that is the case we should not be surprised since Labour rigged the two referendums on devolution through the introduction of the 40% claues in 1979 and the introduction of a PR system designed to prevent the SNp taking power in 1998.This would make Wendy Alexander's claim that the SNP are playing with the electorate,somewhat hollow.The SNP have been open about their intentions for a long time.
72

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 18/05/2008 17:53:29
I heard that the odious one had taken his ball and left so I thought it was worth a wee look, no sign of it sssssh.

Wonder which cloak it will wear when it shows up as it will.

Do you believe this? Do you believe Gordon Brown or Eddie Barnes? Sorry not me, it is just another desperate scam to keep control of the Scottish oil.

But believe this: http://tinyurl.com/6dha2o it is time :o)))))))))

73

CossieMoJo,

Grangemouth 18/05/2008 18:56:56
Meanwhile in a country not so very far away....

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article2427528.ece
74

Bravetart,

18/05/2008 20:58:16
As "interesting" as Labour infighting is why aren't there headlines about the out-of-control costs of petrol and diesel? Have Labour told the press to shush because they are reaping so much from the sheeple? Where are the protests?
75

,

18/05/2008 21:17:25
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76

,

18/05/2008 21:30:12
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77

,

18/05/2008 21:36:02
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78

M.T.,

18/05/2008 21:43:36
The Lord works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.

The best laid schemes of mice or men gang aft agley

Poetic justice!
79

The Master,

19/05/2008 14:20:38
It has to be Westminster that organises the referendum: in the interests of democracy, what is needed is a simple “separation: yes or no” type question and we don’t want to wait while the bloated demagogue with the popular touch builds up a head of steam through exploitation of the current unpopularity of a government which has inevitably become long in the tooth. This is an opportunity lost to put the Nats’s fox finally out of its misery and Wendy’s head must roll for this! You are on notice, Wendy: you’ve forfeited the support of the Master and your days can only be numbered!
80

john z,

edinburgh 19/05/2008 16:15:47
Number 85,

Why do you think that a referendum on the future of Scotland needs to be organised by England. Is Scotland a modern day colony of England?

And as to your point on a simple question on separation yes or no. Firstly, there is no 'separation involved. Check your dictionaries folks. Scotland in my lifetime, at least will not become physically 'separated 'from England. No, like many other people, including Gordon Brown and Wendy Alexander, you just haven't read the draft bill on the referendum proposed by the Current democratically elected Scottish government.

It's independence they are talking about, not 'separation' , 'separatism' or 'partition', as Gordon brown would like people to believe.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2007/08/13103747/10

Read carefully the question they propose.

As to Scottish independence, the Scottish government do indeed have the powers required to have a referendum, it is a blatant piece of lying by labour spin doctors to imply the referendum is a reserved power. I suggest you read the draft bill, and then you may be better able to give educated comment.
81

john z,

edinburgh 19/05/2008 16:20:45
As for the above story about Labours' secret referendum plans - just plain old fashioned lies from Labour. A desperate attempt to try to rescue the credibility of a failed prime minister.

You can see them now "yes, Gordon had always planned on holding a quick referendum, it's just that daft wendy has messed it up' Yeah, right. Is that a flying pig I see??

Mind, it's only taken the Labour spin doctors in London a week to dream this up.

Liars, dammed liars, and London Labour spin doctors
82

The Master,

19/05/2008 18:09:32
#86 John z: the SP only has powers to hold a “consultative referendum”: hence the obscure language referring to “opening negotiations with a view to independence” which is undemocratic as ordinary people just don’t understand it. Only Westminster has the power to ask a straight “independence yes or no” question.
83

snecked,

Argyll 19/05/2008 20:52:18
Under the United Nations Charter to which UK is an original signatory Westminster is not able to legally prevent Scotland having a referendum on Independence no matter what the Devolved settlement may say.
84

Royster,

20/05/2008 05:18:53
#89 Since when does a UN Charter have more authority than Parliament in the UK? The UNi is not an international government. The UK could simply withdraw from the Charter if it so wished. Counts for nothing.
85

snecked,

Argyll 20/05/2008 13:44:52
Startling stuff from Royster suggesting the UK should behave the way the Mugabe regime and other tinpot basket cases do. The UN is the final authority on constitutional affairs across the world and the UK and its Parliament is a signatory to its authority in these affairs.
Grow up.

 

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