The procurator fiscal's office have made it clear that Boruc was given the caution (which, as I understand it, he accepted) for a combination of behaviour. If he included blessing himself in his taunts, his fellow Catholics should be among the first to condemn him.

I don't agree with Duncan's point about fellow Catholics condemning Boruc's crossing himself as a taunt - surely the issue is that people take offence at others practising their religion. If the police action related to another incident, then they should clarify this. However, how many players gesticulate at the crowd and how many are charged? And how many members of the crowd were gesticulating at Boruc that day, including the singing of sectarian songs?

Maybe if the media reported only the facts - instead of listening to the Catholic Church and it's perceived persecution, and the numerous stirring MSP/MP's - there wouldn't be so much "confusion".

Police reports detailed three hand gestures made – a V sign at the crowd, another obscene gesture at the crowd and a blessing.

Boruc was guilty, and he accepted his caution.

Why would catholics want to condemn someone for blessing themselves, Duncan?

More to the point, why would anyone want to condemn someone for blessing themselves?

Maybe because they vehemently disliked what the act stands for? Hated it even...

In which case, shouldn't we be doing something about the blatant religious intolerance being displayed by the individuals who complained?

I really think it’s the big picture which is important here. Regardless of what we as a community feel about how this affects our local sensibilities – albeit and so be it from polarised ponts of view – this does make Scotland look backward and primitive. No doubt about it as anyone who has lived for any length of time outside of the country will tell you. A very ill considered move from the CPS.

What do people fail to understand here?

He was NOT cautioned for blessing himself. The PF statement clarified this. Countless Rangers & Celtic players have blessed themselves at Ibrox with NO problem. Why would it suddenly be an issue?

That wasn't the complaint. He was making provocative gestures to the crowd, this included him blessing himself. Does John agree that an act of his faith should be used as a taunt, alongside obscene gestures? Doesn't that devalue it? What indeed does it stand for in that context??

I'm sorry but that is not practising your religion.

I don't think it makes Scotland look backwards at all. It seems quite clear to me that the player made several provocative gestures. Whilst most people would not be offended by someone crossing themselves doing so to a Protestant in an attempt to deliberately cause them alarm is offensive. If he was quitely praying and people complained, I would have sympathy for him. As a Roman Catholic I feel that him making the sign of the cross along with other provocative gestures is nothing other than sectarianism to antagonise the opposing fans. Was he praying or denigrating his own religion whilst he was winding up the Rangers fans?

John who posted comment number 4. I am a Catholic of Irish descent, I think someone being offended by someone blessing themselves is wrong, but what is worse is to deliberately attempt to cause offence by pretending to bless yourself. Not only is the person doing this being deliberately offensive, they are also mocking their own faith(if they even have one)

Sorry to burst your bubble Graeme, it is your good self who is failing to understand what is going on here. Countless Celtic players may have blessed themselves at Ibrox, but no Rangers players. Indeed when Lorenzo Amoruso & Sergio Porinni signed for the club they were told by the club & the police, that it would be in their interests if they done such an act in the tunnel before the march started.
These are players who done this act along with most other players in Serie A without a second thought.

Anyone who watches Celtic home and away will testify that Artur Boruc does this so called criminal offence, at the start of the first and second half of every game.
As for your comment about practising religion, what would you know about that, as the only religion you seem to know about is bigotry.

What an absolute bloody joke! Does this mean that anybody, of any other religious conviction, is liable to be treated the same way if they appear at Ibrox? What happens if, in the unlikely case of Rangers ever hosting a European Championship game against some bunch of Italian match-fixers, who cross themselves at every opportunity, will they all be 'cautioned'? While I confess to being a devout atheist, I see this as be another example of the bigotry that has so blighted Scottish football, being perpetuated by the 'authorities'!

i think the point here is that he made the gesture as a deliberate insult. i have no problem with people blessing themselves at any time, no matter what faith they hold. but to do it is such a way as to deliberately cause offence... that is wrong.... if he had crossed himself whilst stood in the middle of the pitch, or in his goal facing pitchwards, tehn i doubt there would have been any warning... but to deliberately direct it at the crown knowing that it will cause offence is wrong. he obviosly agrees with this, as he has not objected to the warning.

I think football crowds should grow up. They have no right to be offended at stuff like this. It's as if some girls were cautioned by the Fiscal for walking down Sauchiehall Street in short skirts on a Saturday evening, thereby provoking a reaction among some boys.

Until the "men" who go to watch football can grow up, maybe these games should be played before an empty stadium.

James, I think your point would be valid if this was an isolated incident. Alas i have seen countless players from every club taunting opposition fans with the w**ker sign etc. Including wonderful players such as Davie Cooper & Johnny Doyle with my own eyes. This was done in full view of high ranking police officers without any action being taken. Even recently my own daughter was subjected to being called a fenian B, by a premier league player as she gave him the ball back at a match, again in full earshot of the police. Guess what- nothing said by the police. Im afraid this is a cop out by those in denial that their is an agenda against a certain faith in Scotland.

Scene1:
Set- it is the 21st Century in a small country on the outermost fringe of Western Europe where the Clan Looney are still flourishing.
Plot - A player from a devoutly Catholic who plays for a Scottish football club; he is a devout Catholic himself and has indulged in the ritual of blessing himself regularly on the filed of play since childhood, (like countless millions of like minded footballers world wide), finds himself the subject of allegations resulting from complaints by the Up Tae Wur Knees sept of the Clan Looneyleading to a criminal investigation; said allegations include the act of making the Sign Of The Cross as though this were somehow akin to making an obscene gesture. Tragi-comic farce ensues with hilarious consequences mixed with the pathos of sociologists/anthropologists arriving from all parts of the developed world to examine this primitive society. . . .
Author: Brian McRix
Cast: to include Billy McBigot, Mason Boyne, Strathclyde's Finest and the Procurator Fiscal Service.

@ #10: I am a born-again Christian Mark, and as such don't personally believe in crossing myself, however I have no problems whatsoever with anyone who does so in the correct manner. It isn't at all offensive. Which is why countless Celtic players, and players from clubs all over the world, have done so with no problem...

What many people seem to be failing to grasp, is the fact he was NOT cautioned for blessing himself. What's hard to understand about that? He made provocative and obscene gestures, in a bid to incite the Rangers fans. He also crossed himself as an intended "wind-up" towards them. I would say accompanying a religious act with obscene gestures is demeaning his faith, wouldn't you?

I know for a fact Shota Arveladze has crossed himself at Ibrox, as have others. And I find your last comment unnecessary and insulting. Could you care to point out where I made a bigoted comment...

As an Italian-Scots Catholic, I dislike Celtic for their anti-Protestant bigotry. Too many times at school did I see the sign of the cross being used by other pupils when we were around other children from the Protestant school. This unfortunately was not prayerful thought and reflection, rather it was done to provoke and differentiate us from them. This is sectarianism, Lorenzo Amoruso crossed himself at Ibrox and there was no reaction, maybe because it was genuine and not done to provoke.

It is accepted that many athletes in various sports make that sign before starting or entering the field.
The question is: Was Boruc simply making the Sign of the Cross or was he attempting to antagonze spectators?
If the first then it is perfectly acceptable - at the right time.
The Sign of the Cross is meant to be a prayerful gesture of respect to Jesus Christ, who is the accepted Lord and Saviour of all Christians, of both Catholics and Protestants.
To use it to taunt others is a total disrespect to Christ and is reprehensible.
The real problem is that there are fringe groups of religious bigots on both sides who never seem to get it through their thick heads that there are Christian supporters, of both denominations, who support either team. Until these people learn to treat others with tolerance and respect the problem will never go away. Visit the various suporters web sets of Celtic and Rangers and the problem is obvious.

Graeme ( No 16)
I could not agree with you more. Boruc was not being punished for crossing himself - he was being punished for making gestures including "come on" gestures and shaking his hand in a W**nkers motion. Everyone seems to be up in arms about him being punished for crossing himself. I have absolutely no problem with anyone crossing themselves, but the manner in which Boruc crossed himself was filled with sarcasm and in my opinion was insulting to his religion. He did it in this manner to incite Rangers fans not because of his religious convictions!! What is the difference between Boruc doing that and Gazza playing an imaginary flute?
I also saw nothing in your first message which was biggotted- but the accuser sounded bigoted in his absolute defence of Boruc. So Mark at no 10 -For goodness sake if someone does something wrong have the conviction to say so instead of having blind loyalty simply because the player happens to play for the team you support.

I have been attending Old Firm games for over 30 years and have seen many players 'bless' themselves. However Boruc's actions were not one of prayerful thought rather those of a man lacking in common sense and any spirit of decency. Why else would he combine the 'sign of the cross' with the 'sign of the w**nker' - he was trying to 'wind up' Rangers fans - he got caught and has been dealt with. The matter should now be laid to rest.

For the RC Church and politicians to become involved shows at best a musunderstanding of the situation or at worst a cynical disregard for the truth.

Perhaps Mr. Boruc should make a statement on why he felt it necessary to make offensive gestures towards the Rangers support. Then again many Croats are waiting on him explaining why he gave them 'the finger'. Is there a pattern to your actions Mr. boruc? Or are the Croats 'big bad proddies' too..... well hardly!!

its way past time the people of scotland grew up for it to be considered that blessing himself is a taunt shows how insecure scots really are. i support rangers but if this upset a section of fans i would suggest that the club would be better off without them as they are probably the ones who sing secterian songs and cause the club problems

I have no problem with people blessing themselves at any time, 100's of players do it on the continent, why are so many people "offended" by 1 player doing it here. If Boruc was a muslim, would he be grilled and charged by the police, if he had gotten his prayer mat out, to say a prayer? As a practising Cathoilc, does Paul Le Guen think it is not acceptable for players to bless themselves before, during or after a game? The police action on this will only entrench the extreme factions in Scotland even more, which we can do without, as Scotlands shame makes our country a joke.

its amazing that bigots go running to the police when a catholic commits the crime of blessing himself,the very same people who would have been singing about being up to their knees in the blood of catholics,where were the police when these songs were being sung to Artur Boruc,i would have said a prayer for these people but they would only get offended and go running to the police to have me charged,one scotland many cultures,but not if you"re a catholic

Religion is one of the marks of ethnicity witness FR Yugoslavia, Sudan, etc etc ooh er and Ireland.

If the reports as outlined above are true then I, for one, think that he was very lucky not to have been charged with a racially aggravated offence.

Perhaps it is not too late for the SFA to act.

Graeme repeatedly claims that Boruc was not simply cautioned for blessing himself but because of his alleged conduct generally that day.

Assuming that this is correct, is he saying, therefore, that there would have been no reprisals whatsoever had he done no more than bless himself in front of the Rangers support? I think he knows the answer to that.

By the way, Boruc has not "accepted his guilt".He has been the subject of a Warning Letter from the Fiscal.He is not called upon to accept or reject that.He is simply being warned that if there is a repeat of his alleged conduct then he will be prosecuted.

None of what Boruc did allegedly was caught on camera. The fiscal's letter is a way out since contrary to what is stated above the player doesn't have to accept guilt. It is simply sent to him without discussion.
I am totally cynical about some of the comments above. Yesterday on Radio Scotland it was said that the player had blessed himself and then held his arms out wide. Now we have a load saying he gave a v sign. Funny that more than six months after the event with no video evidence that should be suggested.
Whether or not the Rangers apologists accept it the fact is that any opposition player crossing himself at Ibrox causes aggro and that's entirely due to the home crowd's bigotry. To suggest the complaints would have been made had he not crossed himself is fanciful.
It is sad that whatever the reason a player may cross himself it can be regarded by many as a provocative gesture.

Would this be the same Rangers fans which booed one of their own players, when he was percieved to bless himself, when he played agianst Linfield, I am sure his name was Shota Arveladze.

What really amazes me, is the fact, some people are on here trying to change the goalposts, and throwing in the part about blessing himself as a side issue, it should NOT even come into the equation he blessed himself.

The denial of the Rangers fans is truly sad in this day and age, the sooner they get over themselves and leave the bigotry in the gutter, where it belongs, the quicker Scotland can move on.

I appreciate that you may not have been incensed by the Boruc sign of the Cross, Graeme in Dundee. Many Rangers supporters will not be angered by it because they try to live good Christian lives. The problem lies with those who deem themselves 'protestant' and 'orangemen,' as they would very likely get worked up about this act. I would argue that they would be more upset about the Sign of the Cross than any other gesture that Boruc is alleged to have now made. The question remains, why is that?

I think we have to remember the whole context around these "complaints" that rushed the CPS into a 6 months intensive investigation. This is a club that refused to sign a Catholic for over 100 years, indeed they became a focal point for anti Catholic behaviour for most of their existance.

The whole emphasis from Rangers fans up to this point has been that he "blessed himself" at them, these alleged other gestures have only been mentioned because of the international condemnation at this religious presecution of a practicing Catholic in Scotland.

It's a pity that the internet was not around for most of the dreadful discrimination of Catholics in everyday life.

"Catholic - know your place" in Scotland that keeping in the shadows

I'm just getting a mental picture of police at Ibrox wading through people giving a straight one arm salute singing "up to our knees in fenian blood" to get to the deeply offended fans.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

That first season with Murray and Souness together at the helm brought the first of a record-equalling run of Nine-In-A-Row Championships.

They also did something which hadn't happened at Rangers for more than 70 years. They signed a high-profile Catholic player.

In the early days of Scottish football, it was not unusual for players to turn out for both Rangers and Celtic. It was only around the time of the First World War, when Belfast shipyard workers moved to the Clyde, that sectarian attitudes began to harden.

Now with the signing of Mo Johnston, a former Celtic player, for £1.5 million from French club Nantes, Murray was announcing that old prejudices had no place in the modern game.
----------------------------------------------------------------

The above is took straight from Rangers FCs official history on their website, you work out the dates, you will see that this is the same club who will be naming their main stand after the bigot Bill Struth, the man who entrenched sectarianism in Scottish football and took them nearly 70 years before they signed a catholic after he took the helm.

This is the man they will be honouring, has anything really changed within the walls of Ibrox?

I don’t think the title of the article is accurate/complete. I think the implications of acquiring a criminal record for the heinous crime of “blessing yourself at Ibrox” are a bit more serious than Scotland simply being considered a “laughing stock” !

News of the Scottish establishment’s behaviour on this matter, in which they legitimise religious intolerance of Roman Catholicism, is slowly trickling abroad. I can imagine that people learning this news would be more amazed or shocked, than amused !

Scotland is showing itself for what it is.

There has been only one club taken to task by UEFA
for religious intolerance and that's Rangers Football Club.
While the rest of the civilised world condones such intolerance,here the authorities pander to the outdated 'sensibilities' of such people.
Uefa are reportedly concerned by this action and are worried that players visiting these shores will leave with criminal records.The possible outcome of this could be a ban on Scottish clubs from UEFA competitions.
This as a result of pacifying the most bigoted support in Europe,great eh?

No, not much has changed. Rangers fans as a mob (and that's how you should take them) are riven with bigotry. The whole point of beng a Rangers fan is to be in a mob where you can sing those filthy songs. The thing is that most of them would never dream of coming out with the hate on their own. Some of their best friends are Catholics. It's the same with Celtic, although it's not so much about religion it's about a feeling of wounded Irishness. Hardly anyone of them would admit to being pro IRA - unless they're in their own mob.

I say nationalise Rangers and Celtic, and close them down to create The Glasgow Ducks and the Glasgow Geese, one with yellow polkadots on pink, the other with pink polkadots on yellow strips. swoppling grounds each week.

It's the only way forward. You know it makes sense.

Nev

I thought you were to keep comments relevant to the story or discussion.Is it acceptable to caution someone for the religious act of blessing themself?

Police reports highlighted three hand gestures made by 26-year-old Boruc during an Old Firm match in February – a V sign at the crowd, another obscene gesture at the crowd and a blessing.

Source The Sunday Herald.

Why will those of you trying to distort the truth here not accept the facts? Boruc is a serial offender in rude and aggressive handsigns to opposing fans.

You are damaging Scotland with your lies and distortion of the facts, I find this distortion somewhat sinister.

One scotland, many cultures

Just make sure its not a culture that involves Catholicism - 'laughing stock' does not quite cover it for me.

Neither does the claims that there were any other inflamatory gestures.

Arthur Boruc has been found guilty without trial for the crime of being catholic.

To dress it up as anything else panders, even more, into the hands of the bigots who were offended.

Scotland's Shame, from when this news broke on Friday I have felt an alien in the country of which I was once proud.

It's ridiculous that people can still be offended in Scotland by religious gestures. Boruc however, was cautioned for making various gestures to the fans. Let's not give the extremists on either side more meat to chew on.

Boruc is an idiot and anybody who supports his gestures is an idiot. Let the story die!

Martin - thanks for that correction. I think the Fiscal was daft to caution the footballer for doing his geesture. Was that not clear enough from my excellent and well considered earlier post, no. 13? As others have pointed out the footballer made other, very naughty, gestures. But I think that footaball fans are creepy in a mob and shouldn't be indulged. I think the footballer was gesticulating for the sensible silent majority with his hand gestures.

So, Gazza was right to mimic playing the flute then?
As a well educated atheist I still feel it is important to teach my kids "The Sash", "The Cry.." etc,.. as that is part of my Scot's heritage. I could pretend that we don't have any roots, but surely we have the right to feel pride in our forefathers.

small mind enforcers are alive and resident in Scotland, shame
Perhaps one day the Nation will rise again and makes us proud and not ashamed of our country

Jock(29) you show youself up fro what you are a complete and utter moron. This is another instance if if you tell a lie often enough it will be believed. Rangers had a number of Roman Catholic players on the books before Mo Johnston so you quote of 100 years is sir, A LIE.

Archie Kyle
Willie “Doc” Kivlichan (Who, like Johnston, was an Ex-Celtic player)
Colin Mainds
Tom Murray
Pat Lafferty
Johnny Jackson
James Tutty
Tom Dunbar (Brother of Michael Dunbar who became a Celtic director)
Joe Donnachie
Hugh O’Neill
Constantine McGhie
Don Kichenbrand
Laurie Blyth
John Spencer
McCallum
Brown
Wylie
John Clare
Johnny Kennedy
Charles McCafferty (Never made a first team appearance)
Daniel Divers
Chris Houston
John Manners
Bob Cleary
George (or Gorg) Banciewicz
Eddie Devenney
Terry Sloan
Brian Grubb
Edward Devlin
Andy Casey
Tom Cassidy
Bob "Dancer" Dunn
Peter Mone
"Starry" McLachlan,

Please feel free to refute any of the above before spouting your LIES

I find some of the comments made above laughable.

In light of the press reports this morning regarding the gestures that Boruc made to fans he deserves the caution he received. Prior to the match he and his team, along with the Rangers team, were spoken to by the Police regarding their behaviour on the pitch. They were asked to remember the atmosphere in which the game would be played and warned not to incite the crowd in any way.

I should mention that there is a fair amount of scrutiny on Old Firm games due to the incidents of the previous season's game at Ibrox in November 2004, a game which Scotland's First Minister said was a game too far. He also stated that further acts such as those witnessed on that day would not go unpunished. As a result, any gesture by Celtic on Rangers players reported to the police is likely to receive this treatment and Boruc can really have no issue here. I can only presume that Mr Devine is supportive of Mr McConnells stance and will reconsider his comments in light of police information?

One last point - I fully expect the SFA to turn a blind eye to this as it involves one half of the Old Firm. We can't go around punishing Celtic or Rangers when there are lesser and more deserving clubs in the SPL and SFL eh?

Brown & Wylie, oh and the cleaner, usual Rangers revision, do you not accept that it was Rangers "policy" not to sign Catholics or are you saying that numerous Rangers senior officials are liars too. C'mon see the bigger picture here, Rangers have been a focal point for anti Catholic and right wing feelings in this country almost since they were founded.

Andrew wrote"John who posted comment number 4. I am a Catholic of Irish descent, I think someone being offended by someone blessing themselves is wrong, but what is worse is to deliberately attempt to cause offence by pretending to bless yourself. Not only is the person doing this being deliberately offensive, they are also mocking their own faith(if they even have one)"

Andrew is correct and I believe a certain Maurice Johnston was chastised by the RC hierarchy for exactly this while crossing himself after being sent off in an old firm cup final back in the 80's.

The whole episode does not reflect well on Scotland-Boruc as a Pole should not be getting involved in this nonsense- which we all know has nothing to do with Christianity!

If anyone is interested, I saw the whole incident:

Boruc walked slowly into the goals, opened his arms straight out and gave what can only be described as a "come on then" gesture. Started nodding his head and laughing. Then gave a small "masturbatory" shake of the fist and then blessed himself in slow motion from the top of his head to his groin and from shoulder to shoulder which took about five seconds.

As my mother is a devout Roman Catholic I asked her if this was usual, but surprisingly she said it was not.

This is what happened, and far from being a symbol of reverence for God it was anything but. Maybe the Catholic Church should try and show a little love and understanding, rather than protecting a member of the club. Is this not what they are for?

PS. I am sure the little child raped and starving in the Congo is glad that religious men selfishly "bless THEMSELVES" over a daft game and that the Christian church tries to defend it and shows outrage over it. They don't have their priorities straight do they?

For all you citizens of the world looking in on this squalid little debate:

When you arrive at Glasgow or any other Scottish Airport the religious police representitive of every faith but Catholicism quiz you about your faith whilst looking for any vestage of Catholic symbolism.

If you avoid being detained at this pont you will have to hide your faith at all times or risk the stark and austere Catholic detention camps located in a dark highland wilderness. Stormtroopers from the Govan RST will be scrutinising your every move just waiting for you to make sign of the cross.

There is tacit denial of the existence of the Holy Roman Empire or in fact events such as the Irish potato famine. All vestage of the Diaspora have been brutally supressed!!!! The Catholic football club Celtic are allowed to play in the Scottish premier league for the fun of the Masonic, Orange referees who constantly deny perfectly good goals and stonewall penalties in making sure Celtic get relegated every other season.

Celtic fans, detained at Herr Knox's pleasure in the detention camps shed a tear for the halcyon days when Celtic played on a level playing field, winning 9 league titles in a row.

What many of us find controversial, even incomprehensible, is that this particular christian sign be considered inflammatory by the legal powers in a supposedly christian country.
Second century christians signed the cross on their forehead before taking any risk, such as embarking on a journey, and so on; some still do.
In Spanish football, for instance, it very common: at the start of Saturday's Valencia/R.Betis game, the ref crossed himself.

If this event (12 Feb) was just one gesture, then the press -- including The Scotsman (para 4 above) -- should not report this one out of context of each of the other ¿rumoured? gestures.
On the other hand, it seems ridiculuous for the PFisc to cite this gesture at all. For example, could one blow one's nose in an offensive way?

It also is crazy that there was a six-month police inquiry. Is there nothing more important for them?
On the PF front, since nearly all the press only mention the blessing -- and the PF does not appear to yet publish full details (eg www.procuratorfiscal.gov.uk) -- the PF et al seems to have a marketing job to do.

It would seem too that each supporter upwards, and team/community downwards, need take some responsibility for the sectarian hatred, violence, and general misbehaviour (at matches).

Jack why should it be deemed an 'incident' he blessed himself in the first place, even if it was slow and lasted 5 minutes or 5 seconds, why is it a problem in the first place?

Surely your not suggesting Rangers fans are intolerant of these kinds of things, that they should not be aired by anyone and we should all ignore the bigots and let them be offended at something only they deed offendable.

A lot of anti-catholic bigotry is coming to the fore on here and the perpetrators are so wrapped up in their own small minded bigoted world they don't even realise how they are coming across.

Some of the comments from Rangers fans on this subject just show the kind of ignorant fans that they have, as for those using child abuse for point scoring, I really pity your sick and depraved minds.

Interesting debate but, IMHO, the key issue here is that the police and fiscal are including blessing oneself in their list of offences. What in effect they are saying is that blessing oneself equates to an offensive gesture.

If Boruc is guilty of provoking the crowd then fiscal is correct in administering a warning but this should be based on his (alleged) inappropriate behaviour. I’m sure that most people would agree that the act of performing the sign of the cross is non offensive, and is (critically) a religious freedom that is protected in law. Why then has the fiscal deemed it – in effect – a criminal offence?

Obviously because of the reaction in the crowd, therefore they are saying it is illegal to perform a non offensive act because of the reaction it provokes. How absurd is this?

To illustrate, as a Celtic supporter I find Rangers players celebrating a goal against my team offensive and likely to increase the potential for crowd disorder therefore I’d appreciate it if the authorities would brief Paul LeGuen immediately to prevent any future occurrence – preferably prior to the next old firm match! If only…

Can't we all just get along?

Lets put things into persepective here.

Imagine Samuel Eto'o visiting the Bernabau stadium where in the past he, and many other black players before him, has been subjected to viscious racial abuse because of the colour of his skin. Upon scoring a goal against Madrid, he runs past the opposing fans and gestures to his face and his skin. Do you think the modern world would be outraged if he was then investigated by the Police for breach of the peace? Do you think most sensible minded people would take pity on the racists in that crowd who found it deeply offensive that this player had been born coloured? Mmm...let's think

If we're setting a precedent in Scotland here then I presume that Orange Walks and orders will now be banned from Scottish streets and anyone involved in these prosecuted by the Police as I imagine there is a section of Scottish people who find these deeply offensive? One rule for one, one rule for others!!

I see that no one has dared to comment on my assertion that given the context of the gesture (s) that it was an overt racist act.

The logic of the argument that Boruc was cautioned for merely blessing himself at Ibrox just does not stand up to scrutiny.

Rangers played Italian and other continental teams in the Champions league last season who's players bless themselves as a matter of course before entering the playing field, after scoring goals, when being sustituted.

At no time were any of those players reported to the police, why, because they did not add the agressive and insulting hand gestures which characterised the Boruc incident.

It is clear to me that the Catholic establishment in Scotland is bent on creating a riff in our society through blatantly politicking, using a lie as the basis for this cynical crap.

It is exactly the reason I took my kids out of the west of Scotland into a more tolerant, fair and just environment. I am not religious, but it seems to me that inverted bigotry is rampant in Scotland, if the proddies dont hate us now they will by the time we are finished with them!!

Dont let them drive this wedge. Scotland has a tremendous record on mixed marriages and Catholics scaling the heights in all professions and government, this persecution crap does not stack up with the empirical evidence.

Ross,

I'd be interested in your opinion to the point I make in post 53.

The fact remains that the sign of the cross should not have been included in the fiscal's list of offenses.

Blessing himself as thousands of other football players around the world do, and as he has done since he starting playing football is "overt racist act." according to you?

Why? because it was in front of Rangers supporters?

Aye Scotland, home of many cultures, just practice out of sight

all this debate about rights an wrongs in the end there is only going to be 1 loser at end of it the real rangers fan that is when uefa take a decision to not allow teams to go to ibrox for fear of the narrow minded biggots and theyre nazi salutes reporting a player for makin a religous gesture being reported and charged by the police

Even the Herald a paper run and edited by some of those high profile Catholic success story joked that when Celtic played the UEFA final in Seville that the Fiscals office was empty.

I am naturally paranoid, as Andy Grove (Founder and Chairman of Intel) entitled his book 'Only the PARANOID survive'. Have the Rangers support been once more stitched up by the drip, drip delivery of the facts of the case?

As I said Boruc has a lot of previous when it comes to incitement. For once it would be nice if Celtic FC and it's shameful PR machine just accepted that Boruc had transgressed, force him to apologise. I am sure if we had video evidence the ubiquitous £30 software would be wheeled in as a defence. If you tell a lie often enough it will start to be believed .

There are only two groups in the world that would ensure making the sign of the cross is met with punishment.

The Taleban.
Rangers fans.

Go figure where the problem lies.

Every week the shame of Scotland are up to their knees in fenian blood; the history of Rangers fans is embedded in anti-Catholicism / anti-Irishness.

Sectarian to the very core. But the poor wee souls are offended when one person makes the sign of the cross.

I bet Mr Murray is totally embarrassed by all of this - I mean he probably spent the summer trying to convince Paul Le Guen that Rangers have moved out of the dark ages - that they are a 'broad Church'

The laughable thing is that they also booed their own player Shota Averladze who made history by becoming the worlds first Georgian Orthodox Fenian B******.

Rangers FC - Scotland's Shame.

"Blessing himself as thousands of other football players around the world do" NOT do.

They do not do it to provoke or incite others they do it for their own PRIVATE purposes.

"Why? because it was in front of Rangers supporters?"

In a nutshell yes. It is not the act of blessing himself that was the problem - it was the context.

Why is it a racist problem? Because religion is used to define ones perceived ethnic origins. We all know the man in question is a Pole but this was in a contest between an Irish (Catholic) club vs a Scottish (Protestant) club.

My case rests (for now).

Ross, will you answer my point and stop going off at tangents? I'm not saying you're paranoid I'm asking you YES/NO was the PF correct in including the sign of the cross in it's list of offences?

He has always shown his faith this way, only in Scotland is blessing yourself considered to be an offensive act.

As for the other gestures, these have just started to surface recently because of the negative feedback from the rest of the world, this sort of stuff is no longer scotlands hidden secret.

I also understand that there is no evidence for any of this other than Rangers fans complaints.

Ross you are right there is a cynical trap by the Catholic establishment to turn Scotland into a Catholic state. I can see now that this whole incident was orchestrated by the Catholic establishment ot destabilise Scotland. And we poor souls have once again been duped by the Papist agents of the Catholic Church. Thank you for pointing this out to me, as on first reading about this story I thought that it was about Scotland being a laughtingstock due to religious intolerane and still living in the Dark Ages. But thanks to your posting I now realise that the PF office is really an agent of the Catholic Church and that the whole thing was a set up in the first place aided and abetted by their agents in the Press. No wonder you moved to England who could live in a country dominated by the Catholic Establishment. Thank you once again for your enlightenment on this subject.

Oh and get them to up your dosage the medications seems to be wearing off.

So Dave are you advocating that all Catholics should not bless themselves at Ibrox, or just ones that play for Celtic

The points been made before but no-one seems to be getting it, particularly those of a blue persuasion. It's THE SIGN OF THE CROSS!!!!! Anyone who finds that offensive in any environment be it at a Football match, on the street, in a playground or in a church is a bigot!!

Peter,

As I have stated previously if you tell a lie often enough you will start to believe it at some point.

You are exactly the type of inverted bigot who fuels the hatred in the West of Scotland. Polarised and indoctrinated to hate.

Remember the fans of Celtic who verbally obused and spat on said Mr Le Guen, I am sure he has a nice opinion of said fans.

Remember Mark Walters and the shocking treatment he got when he arrived at 'Paradise'
bananas, monkey suits and noises from the redneck Parkhead support. Any Catholic who dares play for Rangers is deemed a 'fenian in the blue' and their life, limb and property subject to the assault.

The IRA anthems which the Celtic support belt out across Scotland, the globe and the other offensive ditties. Tactless glorifying of the IRA in London a city which bore the brunt of that organisations cowardly bombing campaign. WHAT AN ADVERT FOR SCOTLAND!!!!!!

Rangers are not perfect but they definitely have a better overall record of behaviour in the past two decades.

players have rituals during games this happens to be borucs its the same 1 he has done at all games prior to each kick off the fact he blesses himself at end of it is real reason there is so much fuss all this talk about hand gestures what flingin his arms up and down is part of his pre match ritual but no you all look foolish complaining about him blessing himself so you decide that its not the blessing himself that upset the bigots he wasmakin a gesture callin use wankers well sory to say this but its true some rangers support has been shown up for what it is biggoted end of

Ross, nothing to do with the topic, I could run off a hundred similar incidents about Rangers then we would be back into the old tit for tat.

What this discussion is around the Glasgow PF charging a player because they blessed themselves.

Ross, I thought you sounded relatively sensible until your last sentance. 80,000 fans in Seville and 1 arrest. 15,000 fans in Barcelona, no arrests. I can't remember the Spanish town Rangers got humped in last season but I seem to remember most of the news was about them smashing it up. Great record. Also like the way how you're not confident of Rangers fans disciplinary record more than 20 years ago.

Fergus,

Being insulting just proves that you are losing the argument. The way that this has been reported has been a farce.

There seems to be a deliberate attempt by certain correspondents to ignore the reality and suggest that Boruc was cautioned for blessing himself, which is patently untrue.

Mad Monk,

Yes I think the PF was correct in the context of the other gestures and the fact that Boruc was prepared to direspect his religion as part of his cheap shot at the opposition supporters.

Ross is - unfortunately - adopting the tired old approach of refusing to answer the question in hand and trying every-which-way to change the debate to but Celtic are worse than us. Perhaps he should read some of the forums rules see. "Keep your coments relevant to the story of discussion". For the record the treatment of Mark Walters was one of the most shamefull in Celtic's history and rightly should be condemed.. thank God that we seem to have moved on from 1988.

"The points been made before but no-one seems to be getting it, particularly those of a blue persuasion. It's THE SIGN OF THE CROSS!!!!! Anyone who finds that offensive in any environment be it at a Football match, on the street, in a playground or in a church is a bigot!!"

If it is designed to provoke it is not a religious symbol. It therefore follows, as others have pointed out, is not THE SIGN OF THE CROSS!!!!!

I do not find the sign of the cross offensive. I do find THE SIGN OF THE CROSS!!!!! so.

I think the Partick Thistle supporters have it right when they sing "F your Pope and F your Queen".

It is not my Queen or Pope you bring into the football arena. It is not my Pope or Queen, or my sport, you disgrace.

Ross, let's cut to the chase here. The (supposedly Celtic supporting?) PF have made a mess of this. All they needed to is review the evidence and since they found it sufficient charge Boruc on the basis of his alleged obscene gestures.. they should have made no reference to the SOTC. If they had then no-one could have disagreed with their actions and we wouldn't have this farce.

Ross, as Fergus said above - "Get them to up your dosage the medications seems to be wearing off"

If you want to go tit-for-tat, believe me son, we could be here all day and may even get off the subject of Artur Boruc being cautioned. (maybe that's your aim?)

I don't find your description of me as a bigot offensive - I find it laughable.

I have absolutely no problem with any man or woman paracticing any faith whatsoever. It only seems to be Rangers fans who have that problem.

I see you never picked up on the Shota Arveladze point - or the fact that Rangers players in the past have been told not to make the sign of the cross.

Let's nail this on the head - the only place in the western world where making the sign of the cross is a criminal offence is at the home of Rangers FC. There you go. Now you can deny to you are blue in the face that it WASN'T the fact that Artur Boruc blessed himself that was the problem, it was because he did other things, namely X, Y and Z.

But we all know why he was reported to the police.

The world can see it even if Strathclyde Police can't / won't.

David.

Boruc who has carried out this act of faith since he was a child without issue does it at Ibrox and it suddenly turns from an act of faith into so