Aye, like either of them has ony influence! (except in their own minds)

Somebody tries to focus on an issue of concern to all who think that bigotory in football needs to addressed, no matter how frail, and of the mark. What do you get? numbers 2 and 3. And, if it wasn't so obvious where the root of the problem lies they hang their affiliations to the mast.

Where do you go when you try and tackle the problem seriously when people do this and when their affiliated team acknowledges, justifies and supports the use of fascist salutes.

Not a good idea to bring Jack a few weeks before an election. Think again Celtic.

An election nears and a pathetic stunt by a desperate McConnell trying to court favour with the "masses" and re-establish the old linkage of Labour=Celtic=The Cardinal -an unholy trinity if ever there was one! The reverend from Aberdeen is out of his depth with that gang of reprobates and is being used.

If they want to get serious about bigotry (they dont)forget the stunts and football matches and get serious with the real causes of sectarianism -end our apartheid education system.

Perhaps time you got serious about bigotry Encephalon?!

#4
And I wonder what side of the sectarian debate you're on .
Regardless whether they are liked or not it has been accepted they are not fascist salutes.
The chant "hail hail" bears a certain close resemblance to a certain fascist greeting also, don't you think?

why are the other religions and political parties not represented, tackling bigotry when it is to late,lets start were it starts, in the seperated schools or is that to obvious for mcwaffle and he is to afraid to do anything about it

If these clerics want to correct clerical errors and sectarian terrors...they should start by disbanding their worthless superstitious antediluvian religions.

That would help quite a bit. Only thing that will, in fact.

I'm with number 11, Onlooker on that one. We might also consdier how the Old Firm have profited from sectarianism over the years. It's easy to say you want rid of it, but how serious can you be taken when every week you make a fortune from people who attend your matches to parade their traibal loyalties as well as to watch a game of football.

Now, as for our wee chum Leon in Hong Kong, who must be deeply personally conerned about this issue, being so far away. Listen my wee pal, you know absolutely nothing about my affiliations, though yours seem clear enough.

If I, or anyone else, wishes to express a skeptical view of this article- that's up to them. If I suggest that the list of sectarian songs is rather sanitised, well, it is.

And lets face it, somebody resident or taking the shilling in a murderous state like China would probably be better consulting his ethical compass closer to home. If there is a moral high ground here - you're drowning in the swamp, wee Leon.

will they have to pay for their tickets?????

no one these days listens to these kinda people , especially the young, it all begins in the home where the ignorent parents install this hatred from an early age .seen it first hand from both sides ,

come on hibs today and the tic next week , prody *********

Looks just like an excuse for the three of them to go to a football match. The words "useless", "fart" and "hurricane" come to mind.

Indeed. And let's face it - It's nothing new to see politicians and clergymen getting free tickets for Old Firm matches...

I think both clubs could do more to sort out the issues, but I think not, Money Money Money springs to mind, and thats an ABBA song just for a wee change !

The fact the tens of thousands of nominally 'sane' people are prepared to pay money for the privilege of attending a football match/safe place to display caveman tendencies, reflects badly on our country's mental health record.

Which country are you talking about #16, Scotland or England?

number 9. So thats alright then that they are Red Hand fascist salutes.

I doubt if it will make a blind bit of difference. The uneducated idiots who spout their venom from the terraces and beyond seldom have any conception of what their religion, or anyone else's is actually about anyway. They wear their colours and sing their songs because they are bigots, pure and simple. There's seldom a religious church goer among them. Ask any sectarian football hooligan what the teachings of their "religion" are and how they differ from the "other side", and you're likely to get a response of shrugged shoulders and a "how the f*ck dae ah know?" They're just uneducated yobs.

Only Rangers could attempt to defend themselves against charges of being anti-semitic by saying they are actually anti-Catholic.

Apparently McGregor didn't use a real headbutt on the Hapless Tel Aviv player - it was a Red Hand of Ulster headbutt. Why UEFA upheld the ban I don't know!

The Red Hand as a symbol is neither is neither Protestant nor Unionist. Unfortunately, some use it as such. It was a heraldic symbol in Ulster for centuries before religion became an issue, and before the place name of Ulster became politically contentious.

jamesfm,

What you have said is correct. Taken out of context, the Red Hand has been a symbol of Ulster for more than 1500 years, being particularly associated with the O'Neills.

As far as the making of Nazi salutes by Rangers fans in Israel goes though, the "Red Hand Salute" is indefensible. For one, there is no such thing as a "Red Hand Salute." Secondly, in the context of being made by a group of Rangers fans at a football match, it loses the neutral meaning described by you and takes on a more aggresive, anti-Catholic symbolism.

Won't argue with that. The Red Hand salute was certainly a new one on me. It did seem like a poor way to make friends and influence people in Tel Aviv. I think the abuse of the Red Hand is a very unfortunate thing, but the corruption of a widely accepted symbol is nothing new.

One set of fans shouting at another set about their 'fairy stories' and 'mythology' being better than that of the oppostion. Meanwhile the perpetrators of these myths are locked in the stands telling both sets of supporters how to behave and, due to dwindling attendance at their 'houses of myth', are trying to recruit new and more gullible members.

All this being 'sponsored' by the leaders of a government who divide children into schools dependent on which sets of mythical stories their parents believe.

What a load of pish - only in Scotland

Celtic were built on charity and kindness and have always been open to all. Inclusion.

Rangers weere built on bigotry and badness, and through most of their shameful history have excluded talented footballers because of their (Catholic) religious beliefs. Exclusion.

wayne's comments make me laugh, trying to associate Hail Hail with Nazism. It is clearly Rangers supporters who have a Nazism issue. The BNP consider Ibrox to be their most fertile recruiting ground.

ban all religions

#27,

Yes, let's deny people their basic human right of religious expression. What a tolerant fellow you are.

Reading these comments I am convinced that Scotland comprises one of the largest groups of political and social Neanderthals in Europe ( and I'm not entirely certain that that isn't a slur on Neanderthals.) The real question isn't whether there is room for Scots in the United Kingdom but whether there is room for Scots in twenty-first century Europe. Their cloying kailyard ways and cutesy Harry Lauder dialect notwithstanding, they have more in common with the Taliban than with the English, except the Taliban don't drink.

27,

you're a fascist thug.

29

harsh.........but fair.

#2 Calumny
You are in fact well-named. You do make malicious utterings and false charges. No progress will be made in Scotland's religious bigotry as long as people like you- on any side- are considered reasonable. Day after day on the Scotsman site, we hear how awful the US is. I can thankfully say we're not attacked at sporting events for our religious choice. Most sickening of all is that supposed believers in Christ attack each other about who the "true" believers are. I can picture you now at the Coliseum cheering on the lions. Self-righteous Scots, wake up and begin to respect the choices of others. Then maybe we could respect you.

//If Celtic and Rangers supporters were true Christians, they would hate people who don’t love one another\\

“The Old Firm game is more traditionally the scene of a torrent of sectarian abuse on the terraces, as Rangers and Celtic fans hurl decades-old religious taunts at one another.”
Sometimes I’m glad we don’t get Scottish items on TV in New Zealand. Although if there is any type of ‘riot’ or embarrassing stuff; that's what the BBC would post overseas.

#29
If you are for real then judging a nation of 5 million people by the posts of a handful of people on this site doesn't reflect well on yourself.

29. U.S. Traveller
One of the reasons I espouse a non insulting policy is simply that every person and every nation has its own ‘warts’. Reasonable and positive criticism is definite acceptable but honestly Traveller, when it comes to bigotry, racism, ‘Redneck’ 16th century thinking and Oh! and cutesy dialects you don’t really have to travel far; if you had stayed at home in the US of A you would have found all the things that you condemn.
You’d have met some real low-life scumbags - and a great number of real nice people too - as with must countries.

as with most countries.

comment 35

My English friends might take exception to any American's categorizing himself/herself as a native English speaker, but here goes. I said in plain English that I believed that Scotland "comprised one of the largest groups..." I did not say all Scots or most Scots...your conclusion is not mine, it's yours. But to the extent I offended, I apologize , to you , to the other 4,999,999 and ,on reflection, to the Taliban.

29 / 38 U.S.Traveler

Thank you for your kind remarks.

Fortunately, we in Scotland, know, that the majority of US citizens are ordinary decent people, pretty much like most of us.

Had you read and understood most of the posts, you would have realised that in general, most of us oppose bigotry of ALL kinds, AND illegal wars.

We generally don't condemn societies because their customs are different from ours, or feel it necessary to insult entire populations because of a few misfits within their societies.

'Have a nice day'

What a farce. If religion were still a significant factor in any of this both Rangers and the Church of Scotland would not be taking part as it would mean breaking the Sabbath.

The fact that most of the post are anti bigotry is very encourageing imagine haveing this discussion 10 years ago.
Who is the worst in there venom, well both sides of the old firm are the same, while rangers and celtic fans are abuseing each other after the game the players themslves are sipping coctails and asking(via intepretors)where are the fields of athenry is that where gretna play and being a hun is that a compliment dident know there was so many gay guys in glasgow, and oh why do ranger fans wave at the celtic fans in that funny way? must really like them isent that nice

intolerant. people dying every day all over the world through the centuries

and the basic right to listen to druids kill others because of some dispute of interpratation of some writing from centuries ago it was and is a political system ie control the people. indoctrination subserviance the main one Money. and another thing look at the muslim/jew thing these are the same people killing each other for the basic right HA to practise there religion get a f life

44

I'm glad you left too.